Contemporary Music Review ISSN: 0749-4467 (Print) 1477-2256 (Online) Journal homepage: http://www.tandfonline.com/loi/gcmr20 Mesias maiguashca To cite this article: (1991) Mesias maiguashca, Contemporary Music Review, 6:1, 197-203, DOI: 10.1080/07494469100640201 To link to this article: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/07494469100640201 Published online: 24 Aug 2009. Submit your article to this journal Article views: 28 View related articles Full Terms & Conditions of access and use can be found at http://www.tandfonline.com/action/journalInformation?journalCode=gcmr20 Download by: [Universidad de las Americas] Date: 28 February 2017, At: 19:32 9 1991 Harwood Academic Publishers GmbH Printed in the United Kingdom Contemporary Music Review, Vol. 6, Part 1, pp. 197-203 Photocopying permitted by license only Mesias Maiguashca interviewed by Stephen Montague Baden-Baden: 25 January 1989 Mesias Maiguashca, who has lived in Germany for over twenty years, gives a brief history of German live-electronics ensembles (Oeldorf Group, Feedback Studio, and Stockhausen's group), along with a description of the current state of live-electronics in Germany. He compares the situation in Germany with France: Boulez's influence on the growth of electronic music in France with Stockhausen's influence in Germany. He concludes with a description of his recent sound installations and compositions. KEY WORDS Live-electronic music, Oeldorf Group, Feedback Studio, Stockhausen, Boulez, Freiburg, Westdeutsche Rundfunk, S~idwestfunk, Metz, Mandelbrot pictures. Mesias M a i g u a s c h c a w a s b o r n in Quito, Ecuador in 1938, studied at E a s t m a n School of Music in Rochester, NY, a n d in Buenos Aires before c o m i n g to Europe in 1965 to w o r k as p r o d u c t i o n assistant (1967-72) at the W e s t d e u t s c h e R u n d f u n k Electronic Studio in Cologne w h e r e S t o c k h a u s e n w a s Director. H e w a s one of the f o u n d e r s of the c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r s ' collective called the O e l d o r f G r o u p a n d h a s b e e n active since the early seventies as a free-lance c o m p o s e r w o r k i n g with b o t h acoustic i n s t r u m e n t s a n d electronics. H e has h a d n u m e r o u s c o m m i s sions w h i c h h a v e included w o r k s for the Metz Festival, D o n a u e s c h i n g e n a n d IRCAM. SM: I ' d like to b e g i n b y talking a little bit a b o u t the old days. Tell m e a little bit a b o u t y o u r O e l d o r f G r o u p . W h e n did it begin? MM: It w a s f o r m e d in 1973 a n d w a s active until a b o u t 1978. SM: W a s it a live-electronics e n s e m b l e ? MM: We did lots of live-electronics pieces as well as all kinds of n e w a n d a v a n t - g a r d e music. We h a d our o w n c o m p l e t e studio for electronic m u s i c a n d studio p r o d u c t i o n s in Oeldorf (outside of Cologne) so w e could do concerts there for a u d i e n c e s u p to a b o u t 300 people. W e also p e r f o r m e d in various other places a n d usually u s e d four to eight Bose l o u d s p e a k e r s d e p e n d i n g on the size of the audience a n d the hall. We also p u b l i s h e d o u r music. SM: W h o w a s the core p e r s o n n e l a n d w h a t did t h e y play? MM: Peter Eotvos w a s at that time best k n o w n as a c o m p o s e r a n d also p e r f o r m e d electronics a n d k e y b o a r d s , t h o u g h these d a y s h e ' s best k n o w n , of course, as a conductor. Joachim Krist p l a y e d viola a n d w a s also a c o m p o s e r . M y wife G a b y p l a y e d cello (and n o w plays with S~idwestfunk S y m p h o n y O r c h e s t r a h e r e in Baden-Baden), a n d I did electronics as well as composition. That w a s the h a r d core, b u t w e often h a d other p e o p l e w o r k i n g a n d p e r f o r m i n g w i t h us. SM: The Feedback Studio in Cologne w a s an electronic p e r f o r m a n c e g r o u p not unlike y o u r o w n also active in the seventies. W h o w a s in that g r o u p ? MM: The core of the Feedback Studio w a s the A m e r i c a n D a v i d Johnson. J o h a n n e s Fritsch a n d Rolf Gehlhaar, also as it t u r n e d out, an A m e r i c a n citizen. We w e r e all v e r y close a n d often w o r k e d together. 197 198 StephenMontague SM: Were there other live-electronic groups active in West Germany in the seventies? Stockhausen's group, of course, but any others? MM." Outside of Stockhausen's group I can't really remember others but there probably were some. SM" What was Stockhausen's group like at that time? MM: Stockhausen's group was different from both ours and Feedback because it was fully professional. His group was based at Westdeutsche Rundfunk and had the advantage of having "state of the art" professional equipment and setups. No expense was spared. A Stockhausen concert involved sometimes truck loads of WDR equipment, and a brace of technicians. We were much more modest. Our equipment was semi-professional: we carried our own loudspeakers and did all the setups ourselves. SM" There was a lot of activity in electronic music in Germany and Europe at that time. What's the situation been like in West Germany during the eighties? MM." The situation has changed completely since those early days I was just speaking about. After this initial period of great activity where Stockhausen was working and Feedback and Oeldorf were very active, Germany seems not to have cultivated much electronic music. Electronic music, in fact, seems to have gone into a state of hibernation, although there are signs recently that things are beginning to change. SM" What do you think are the reasons for electronic music's hibernation or "winterschlaf" as you called it? MM" It's difficult to say precisely, but I think one of the problems is cultural. Germany has always considered itself to be a land of great music as well as a land of great technological accomplishment. But the Germans seem to have difficulty synthesizing the two. The advent of electronic music in the fifties seemed to be a solution to resolving these two elements but it didn't really happen, at least not in the minds of the general public or people in the cultural establishment who matter. In spite of the excitement caused by Stockhausen and electronic music in the sixties and seventies, and the potential of it all, the whole thing was treated more or less as an isolated phenomenon. The general public and even the music schools with few exceptions didn't really take up electronic music as serious business. It was like it wasn't "solid" enough. Germans are very concerned about something being solid, their cars, their houses, their philosophy. Bach, Beethoven and Brahms are solid, and electronic music was a long way away from that. It seemed to be viewed as a passing fad and after a promising start didn't really flow into a mainstream culture. Another problem is that Germany is also highly institutionalized and very well organized on a large scale. There are festivals of all kinds of music in nearly every city in Germany, and they're of very high quality. But they are all organized by big institutions like the radio, who by their very nature, are not adventurous and take few chances. Electronic music was and is still an adventure and a little bit of the unknown. Big institutions tend to present what they present only when it has been proven to be successful abroad, somewhere else. For example, if LaMonte Young had a successful performance in New York, then WDR would invite him to Cologne, but they'd rarely initiate unusual things like that themselves. SM" Has the big German audio industry had any influence on electronic music in West Germany either positively or negatively? Live electronics 199 MM: The German audio and electronic equipment industry is, of course, one of the leaders in the world in certain areas, but they're geared to dealing again with large institutions like the radio, not so much with smaller individual or new unexplored areas. They're famous for being solid, steady, and completely unadventurous and unimaginative, so it is not surprising that in spite of a potentially vast market in electronic music, synthesizers, etc. that market was filled by much more adventuresome English, American and Japanese companies. There were a couple of German synthesizers, but not serious contenders and only lasted a short time. SM" Returning for a moment to Stockhausen. From what you have said I don't understand how Stockhausen, a world figure in electronic music, could have such limited influence on the development of electronic music in Germany. MM" Let me comment on a parallel person in France who is, of course, Pierre Boulez. Boulez before IRCAM was built was never really associated with electronic music like Stockhausen always was in Germany. I think part of Boulez's ability to produce an institution such as IRCAM was his success in a so-called legitimate, mainstream field of music, namely conducting. As a world class conductor he was able to easily prove himself an outstanding musician to an international audience. Stockhausen worked mainly as a composer in a smaller corner of the musical firmament. Boulez acquired tremendous international political/cultural power, Stockhausen not as much. Germans accepted Stockhausen as a brilliant composer in his field but he did not gather as much political/cultural power in Germany as Boulez did in France. SM" Earlier you began to say that the interest in electronic music may finally be beginning to change in Germany. MM: I would say that in the last three or four years much has begun to happen in electronic music in Germany. Organizers and young composers have finally begun to acknowledge electronics as part of normal new musical activities. SM" Why is that: Is it because other countries have now shown the Germans that electronic music is here to stay? MM" I think that as I said earlier, Germans like to see experimentation, etc, take place somewhere else and when it's proven to be successful and is on solid footing, then they will import it and promote it. Certainly what Boulez has done at IRCAM has been important for Germany. Boulez, the well-respected, international musician has created an important international institution. So now Germany can feel safe that something like this should be pursued here. Also they see Stanford, M.I.T., and lots of electronic work from America, England, Scandinavia, Japan or wherever to reinforce this perspective. Electronic music, it seems, is now becoming part of the mainstream. SM" So what's happening in Germany now? In Freiburg, for example? MM" Freiburg is a good example. Freiburg now has three electronic studios: one belongs to the Pedagogical College, one belongs to the Music College, and the third is, of course, the well-known professional Si~dwestfunk Studio run by the radio. Each studio has its own specific function, but the fact that there are now three studios in this small city is symptomatic of what is happening all over Germany in just the last few years. Now nearly all the music colleges in Germany have or are planning new electronic studios - totally unthinkable a few years ago! SM: You teach part-time at the Music College (Musik Hochschule) in Freiburg. 200 StephenMontague What kind of electronic studio facility do you have there? MM: It's actually quite good. The audio side is a mixing desk with thirty inputs, eight outputs, 16 track machines, etc. and lots of effects units. The sound production is basically the Synclavier II and all kinds of MIDI equipment controlled by Atari micro-computers. SM: How does your studio differ from Stidwestfunk? MM: The situation at Stidwestfunk is quite different. The radio, as you know, is a very powerful institution so the electronic studio there is correspondingly big, fully professional, and financed by a very large budget. Luigi Nono was associated with it for four or five years. The studio's special area is liveelectronics and they have made quite a reputation for high quality performances in that field. Their studio is very flexible and in fact tours all over Germany, and places like Poland, the USA, etc. At the moment I would say that it is probably the most prestigious studio in Germany. SM: What is happening in other cities like Munich or Cologne? MM: Well nothing much electronically ever happened in Munich and I'm not aware of anything there at the moment except for some private studios and many good pop music studios, but Cologne is undergoing a kind of rebirth now. The Westdeutsche Rundfunk studio is being refurbished and rebuilt as I understand with York H611er in charge. It always had a kind of double life anyway. Stockhausen's name was always associated with it on the one hand with his special projects and collaborations, but there was always a studio there which other composers also used and worked in. The Music College in Cologne has had a studio for a long time too, originally setup by Herbert Eimert. In fact, it was one of the earliest studios in Germany, and began by having the sort of cast off equipment from the WDR studio, but it's developed into quite a good studio now and well financed. SM: Who are some of the younger German composers working in the liveelectronics field? MM: Michael Obst from Cologne, several composers working around the studio in Essen with Dirk Reith, there are others all over. There's a growing interest among young composers. SM: There is an interest world-wide in electronic music but is there a specific interest in live-electronics developing in Germany? MM: Live-electronics world-wide is going through a particular problematic phase right now. The analog systems of a few years ago were developed for liveelectronic, real-time use. The Synthi AKS, for example, can still do some things you can't get digitally and I still use mine for certain things. But the situation now with digital technology is that those sorts of gestures are not so easy to do. We're at the beginning of a new era so the new technology in a certain sense is still very crude. Real-time work is not very reliable - almost like the early days of electronic music when you prayed that the machine wouldn't crash during the concert. As I said, it's early stages, and in a few years that'll all be worked out and much more reliable, but for the moment I think that a certain kind of liveelectronics is not very popular because the technology isn't up to it. There'll be more activity when the problems are ironed out. Digital equipment needs to develop toward being more malleable like analog equipment was and controlled by not only computer programs, but by musical gestures. I think there will be a renaissance of live-electronics in the next four or five years when these elements Live electronics I O -r : Figure 1 Transformation of video images in A Mandel Box (1987-88) - Mesias Maiguashca 201 202 StephenMontague are perfected and a new outlook toward musical gesture incorporated. At least I hope so. SM: You've also done lots of work at the studio in Metz (France). Can you tell me a little bit about that studio and the general state of things in France today? MM" In France most studios and institutions are created by personal initiatives, Boulez at IRCAM, as I've said before. The radio is, of course, also powerful in France, but it doesn't monopolize the culture like it does in Germany. Metz is, in many ways, a typical situation for France. It was created on the initiative of the composer Claude Lefebvre who also runs the Metz Festival. He developed the studio and over the years more and more money has been poured into the studio. Now it's well run and very well equipped. There are two studios. One is for teaching where I have taught for many years, and the other is a so-called "production studio" where pieces are made. SM: Let's talk a little about your own compositions. You've had works on virtually every major new music festival in Europe and lots of commissions. What are your areas of compositional interest? MM: I have written very little music that is purely electronic or purely instrumental. Most of my work is for a combination of the two. I like the idea of the two worlds joining or confronting each other, but I'm also interested in creating "new" and different sound worlds. Recently I did a project at Donaueschingen which involved an instrument called "Klangplastik". We built it in Metz and it consisted of numerous pieces of metal which were played by bowing, striking or whatever. It made some very curious sounds and created some rather unusual effects. I like working in areas like this a lot where instead of using traditional instruments and electronics I create my own sound world. SM: What project are you working on now? MM: I've always been frustrated by the commercial packages of computer programs, so I've taken up the challenge of doing most of it myself. The programs that I'm developing with my collaborator center around the Atari system and allow us to control the whole spectra of the MIDI commands. We've developed some programs we're very happy with. For the actual sounds, we work especially with FM generators and at the moment are working with the TX-802. My last project was a computer installation for the Donaueschingen Festival. Like lots of people these days, I became interested in the Mandelbrot pictures over the last four or five years and thought it could be a very interesting principle for generating sound. As I was working out my sound system, the visual element, of course, always loomed very strongly in front of me. Very soon I decided instead of just doing a purely musical realization I would expand the idea with visual elements from the same principles so the two would exist together. The resulting project I called A Mandelbox which was an audio/visual computer sound installation. A Mandelbox actually consists of two installations. In the first the computer accepts input from the public which is numerical and corresponds to the parameters of a Mandelbrot picture. Actually any Mandelbrot picture, so in theory there are infinite inputs. The program is then triggered by the public who punches in something on a computer keyboard which calculates parameters of a picture based on the received information and at the same time designs a corresponding sound element. The audience sees the picture grow in real time on a large screen and hears the music unfold. Live electronics 203 SM: So basically y o u calculate a mathematical formula based on Mandelbrot pictures. The mathematical formula produces data which is then sent to the video station and the audio (via MIDI). I suppose the aesthetic problems are no different from the traditional ones: developing appropriate aesthetic and artistic criteria for all of this information so that w h a t the audience gets is something interesting, engaging, satisfying, uplifting, and art, right? MM: Right. This process is even more interesting if y o u have two installations in the same room because you can then see two or three or four pictures being calculated and d r a w n and their relationships to the sounds also being created at the same time. I suppose ! don't really consider it to be a "work of art" so to speak, or even a composition in the traditional sense, but it is an extremely exciting situation to experience. During the development of this project I was excited every time I saw two or three pictures being d r a w n with so m u c h sound whirling around the room. I kept thinking: "Look at all of this being offered by, I don't k n o w w h o m , to me!" SM: Are y o u developing these ideas further in y o u r next project? MM: Yes. In m y next project Iam going in the direction of opera, or shall we say, a theatrical work. I don't w a n t to call it an opera because it certainly w o n ' t be an opera in any kind of traditional sense, but it will be a work with sound, light, and images based around a literary idea, and on a stage. This time, though, the audience will simply pay, sit quietly, and watch. C.M.R.--H
